Wireless Joint

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:50 pm**

Hello, I've been looking around into the Telit LM-960 which is a mPCIe factor vs the m.2. I'm lost on where to start on this project.

Lingering around your website i see you sell a "Mini PCI-E To M.2 (NGFF) Key B Adapter With SIM Card Slot". Will this work in for example a WE826 or a WG3526 build?

I know that the Telit Lm-960 has the option for 4 Mimo antennas.

I'd greatly appreciate if someone could guide me in the right direction for such a build.

I've built the WE826 with sierra card already however would like to get something with band 14.

I appreciate the help, thanks!

Posted: **Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:27 pm**

Wisconsin1000 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:50 pm Hello, I've been looking around into the Telit LM-960 which is a mPCIe factor vs the m.2. I'm lost on where to start on this project.

Lingering around your website i see you sell a "Mini PCI-E To M.2 (NGFF) Key B Adapter With SIM Card Slot". Will this work in for example a WE826 or a WG3526 build?

I know that the Telit Lm-960 has the option for 4 Mimo antennas.

I'd greatly appreciate if someone could guide me in the right direction for such a build.

I've built the WE826 with sierra card already however would like to get something with band 14.

I appreciate the help, thanks!

If you intend to use an M.2 modem inside a router, then you would use a "M.2 to Mini PCI-E adapter" WITHOUT a sim slot OR with one located on top, which is usually bypassed by the built-in tray in the router. Once you get into modems with more than 2 antennas (a main and aux), then you would have to purchase additional antennas with cables and drill holes into the router in order to take advantage of its higher MIMO capabilities, otherwise you wouldn't see much improvement.

It's probably best to stick with true and tried modems like the Sierra EM7511 which supports band 14 (the EM7565 does not):
B1, B2, B3, B4, B5, B7, B8, B9, B12, B13, B14, B18, B19, B20, B26, B29, B30, B32, B41, B42, B43, B46, B48, B66

Here's a list of other modems with Band 14, a new ATT emergency band used in some markets:

Fibocom
L860-GL, M2, CAT-16, Bands:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 25, 26, 28, 29, 30, 32, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 46, 66

Foxconn/Dell
T77W968 (Dell DW5821E), M.2, CAT-16, 5xCA, Bands:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18, 19, 20, 25, 26, 28, 29, 30, 32, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 46, 48, 66

Quectel
EC25-AF, mPCIe, CAT-4, CAx0, Bands:
B2/B4/B5/B12/B13/B14/B66/B71

EM12 CAT-12, M.2, Bands: B1/B2/B3/B4/B5/B7/B8/B9/B12/B13/B14/B17/B18/B19/B20/B21/B25/B26/B28/B29/B30/B32/B38/39/B40/B41/B66

EM20 CAT-20, M.2, Band: B1/B2/B3/B4/B5/B7/B8/B12/B13/B14/B17/B18/B19/B20/B25/B26/B28/B29/B30/B38/39/B40/B41/B42/B43/B46/B48/B66

Simcom
SIM7920G-M2 CAT20, M.2, Bands:
B1/B2/B3/B4/B5/B7/B8/B12/B13/B14/B17/B18/B19/B20/B25/B26/B28/B29/B30/B32/B66

Telit
LE910C4-NF, CAT-4, Bands:
B2, B4, B5, B12, B13, B14, B66, B71

LM960, CAT-18, Bands:
B1, B2, B3, B4, B5, B7, B8, B12, B13, B14, B20, B28, B29, B30, B32, B38, B39, B40, B41, B42, B46, B48, B66, B71

FN980M, 5G, Bands:
LTE: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18, 19, 20, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 32, 34, 39, 38, 40, 41, 42, 43, 46 (LAA), 48(CBRS), 66, 71
5G: n1, n2, n3, n5, n7, n12, n14, n20, n28, n30, n41, n66, n71, n77, n78, n79

And here's some interesting information about the new upcoming CBRS band in the US (this could be big!)
https://www.lanner-america.com/blog/pri ... nd_48_CBRS

Posted: **Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:30 pm**

Could you explain why band 14 is so important Bill please? Isn't B14 reserved for first responders and therefore not for use by regular consumers? Should regular consumers keep clear of B14 to prevent obstructing or delaying emergency services?

Posted: **Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:22 pm**

Agl539 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:30 pm Could you explain why band 14 is so important Bill please? Isn't B14 reserved for first responders and therefore not for use by regular consumers? Should regular consumers keep clear of B14 to prevent obstructing or delaying emergency services?

From what I've read, band 14 will be available in some areas for consumers too, but emergency services will always get priority usage. Another interesting upcoming band is 48(CBRS) I've posted a link about above. For expanded coverage and bandwidth, the most important new bands for ATT are 29/30/46/66, and for Tmobile 46/66/71.
If you want the absolute best coverage money can buy today ($600 smackers;), then go with the
Telit FN980M, LTE+5G, Bands:
LTE: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18, 19, 20, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 32, 34, 39, 38, 40, 41, 42, 43, 46(LAA), 48(CBRS), 66, 71
5G: n1, n2, n3, n5, n7, n12, n14, n20, n28, n30, n41, n66, n71, n77, n78, n79

Posted: **Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:41 pm**

If you find a good place to source this modem, please let me know.

I've been looking, but short of asking for an engineering sample, I can't seem to find one from a reputable source that I trust will not have been blacklisted or otherwise reported as having from from a specific device that will get banned. (i.e. direct from telit, not associated with any manufacturer, etc.)

Posted: **Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:18 am**

blkhawk28 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:51 am Is the Telit card supported in rooter or wifix? I wouldn't mind getting their new 5G card.

I'll let you be the guinea pig for that $600 5G Telit modem (FN980M). jk
First and foremost, drivers would have to be added to the GoldenOrb firmware before anything.
Then, based on the specs, you'll also need 8 antennas to take advantage of its full capabilities, 4 antennas for 4x4 LTE MIMO, and another 4 for 5G. Lots of drilling involved to make it look like a porcupine with all those antennas sticking out (plus another 4 antennas for WiFi 2.4/5Ghz). lol
Telit FN980M spec sheet:
4x antenna connectors for LTE/Sub-6
4x mmWave antennas supported

In my opinion, 5G is still years away till prices comes down to reasonable levels, including routers which actually support it.
However, for adventurous tinkerers, it's possible to do it today by using a 5G phone (cheapest 5G is the $700 Samsung A90) tethered via USB to a current router running GoldenOrb or WiFix. Sure, it will cost and arm and leg (maybe even a kidney), but it's doable.

Posted: **Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:43 pm**

I am exploring using the LM960. The problem is that all the routers I have found "Share" the PCI-E lanes with the wifi card reducing the theoretical speeds. I saw fn980m but @ 900+ doll hairs that it would cost it's not worth it at this time.
Does anyone know of a good board that wouldn't have the shared lanes problem? I thought about getting the "USB3.0 To Mini PCI-E Adapter Enclosure With SIM Card Slot" housing and plugging it into my existing MoFi 4500.

I appreciate any help and thank you in advance.
J

Posted: **Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:23 am**

lteoptions wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:43 pm I am exploring using the LM960. The problem is that all the routers I have found "Share" the PCI-E lanes with the wifi card reducing the theoretical speeds. I saw fn980m but @ 900+ doll hairs that it would cost it's not worth it at this time.
Does anyone know of a good board that wouldn't have the shared lanes problem? I thought about getting the "USB3.0 To Mini PCI-E Adapter Enclosure With SIM Card Slot" housing and plugging it into my existing MoFi 4500.

I appreciate any help and thank you in advance.

Plugging in a fast 5G external modem (or even internal) into the MoFi/WE826 would create a bottleneck on three ports:

1. Modem connected to the 400Mbps USB2 bus:(5G can go above 1,000Mbps)
2. PC connected to 100Mbps LAN:(
3. 2Ghz WiFi speed max at 300Mbps:(but more like half of that in the real world)

So, no bueno! he-he

At the very least you would want to use a USB3 router like a WG3526 or a high end Netgear or Asus which are flashable with OpenWRT. And yes, this router "hobby" can get quite expensive when tinkering with high end equipment.
It's probably a good idea to wait a year or so till prices comes down to reasonable levels on 5G modems/routers.

Posted: **Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:01 am**

Thank you for the reply.

I was already considering the USB limitations right after I posted that message. At the same time I am not necessarily after the 5G speeds. I am after band 71 which has proven to be illusive in most modems. At the same time if I am building this and spending that kind of money I would like It to be 5G ready so that if I enter an area that has it I can utilize it to its fullest.

I will check our the router that you mentioned and am always willing to hear other suggestions.

Thank you.

Posted: **Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:25 pm**

lteoptions wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:01 am Thank you for the reply.

I was already considering the USB limitations right after I posted that message. At the same time I am not necessarily after the 5G speeds. I am after band 71 which has proven to be illusive in most modems. At the same time if I am building this and spending that kind of money I would like It to be 5G ready so that if I enter an area that has it I can utilize it to its fullest.

I will check our the router that you mentioned and am always willing to hear other suggestions.

Thank you.

Currently there are only a few modems on the market below 200 bucks which support band 71. All the 5G modems (not all support band 71) are above $500.

Here's a list of currently available "cheap" band 71 modems (also watch out for the CAT#!):

Quectel
EC25-AF CAT-4, Bands:
B2/B4/B5/B12/B13/B14/B66/B71

Telit
LE910C4-NF CAT-4, Bands:
B2 (1900), B4 (AWS), B5 (850), B12 (700ac), B13 (700c), B14 (700PS), B66 (AWS-3), B71 (600)

LM960 CAT-18, Bands:
B1, B2(B25), B3, B4(B66), B5(B26), B7, B8, B12(17), B13, B14, B20, B28, B29(DL), B30, B32(DL), B38, B39, B40, B41, B42, B46(DL), B48, B66, B71

At the end of the day, band 71 is really not all that useful, since in most areas it's only a 5Ghz narrow band, barely able to push 10-20Mpbs, if that. Also at CAT-4, you're not getting CA at all.

Posted: **Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:50 pm**

To add to the band 71 dellima think there is also a. Issue with good signal connection. Since all the antennas are actually tuned to get 700 MHz and up frequencies.
I tried the
Quectel
EC25-AF CAT-4, Bands:
B2/B4/B5/B12/B13/B14/B66/B71
Really like the modem works great. But not impressed with band 71 performance.
In my area band 71 & 12 has 5 GHz. Band 12 whooped band 71. I locked it on each band to try it out.

Posted: **Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:01 pm**

To add to the band 71 dellima think there is also a. Issue with good signal connection. Since all the antennas are actually tuned to get 700 MHz and up frequencies.

Unless there is some type of filter, there is nothing really restricting the reception of 600Mhz with 700 MHz antenna.

Signals care about wavelengths.

700 MHz at one full wavelength: 1.4057 feet
600 MHz at one full wavelength: 1.64 feet

But, most antennas seem to be designed with 1/4 wavelengths in mind (which make them more compact):

700 MHz is 0.3514 feet
600 MHz is 0.41 feet

As you can see there is not a huge difference. If the signal is strong enough, 700 MHz antenna should work. Is it optimal? No.

Posted: **Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:41 am**

BillA wrote: ↑Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:27 pm LM960, CAT-18, Bands:
B1, B2, B3, B4, B5, B7, B8, B12, B13, B14, B20, B28, B29, B30, B32, B38, B39, B40, B41, B42, B46, B48, B66, B71

Hi,
I notice B25 is not on this list. Is that not supported in the LM960?

I thought these were the supported bands:

LTE:

Code: Select all

B1 (2100)
B3 (1800)
B7 (2600)
B8 (900)
B12 (700ac)
B13 (700c)
B14 (700PS)
B20 (800DD)
B25 (1900)
B42 (TDD 3500)
B38 (TDD 2600)
B40 (TDD 2300)
B43 (TDD 3600)
B26 (US 850 Ext)
B28 (700 APAC)
B29 (US 700de Lower)
B39 (TDD 1900)
B41 (TDD 2500)
B30 (2300 WCS)
B66 (AWS-3)
B32 (1500)
B46 (TDD 5200)
B48 (3600)
B71 (600)

UTMS:

Code: Select all

B1 (2100)
B2 (1900)
B8 (900)
B4 (AWS)
B5 (850)

Posted: **Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:45 am**

My list shows B25 support

Posted: **Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:00 pm**

OptimusPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:41 am Hi,
I notice B25 is not on this list. Is that not supported in the LM960?

It's in the LM960 list B2(B25), which means that band 2 and 25 share similar frequencies.

Wireless Joint

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Re: Telit LM960 build question

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