Wireless Joint

Heya Folks,
I am having a hard time selecting which modem will work best in my situation. I am trying to outfit a couple of boats with a WG1608, a 4G Sierra 7455 and a 5G m.2 modem. I would like the modem m.2 modem to be able to use the three major US networks since depending on where I am docked might change what carrier plan makes sense for that month. I am currently on Visible/VZW as my primary carrier. Additionally, where I dock is a large concert venue and has mmWave deployed... I was trying to consider support for mmWave (though I am worried about the look of the antenna's needed).

I saw this post from @billa http://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?t=1099#p15159

BillA wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:47 am There seems to be some confusion about the band capabilities of the new 5G RM500Q-xx and SIM8200xx-M2 modems.

Note that the Quectel RM500Q-"AE" must be version "AE", and Simcom SIM8200"EA"-M2 must be version "EA", only those versions will work properly on all US 5G bands. For example the RM500Q-"GL" and the SIM8200"G"-M2 are the global versions with SA (Stand-Alone) bands only, and are missing essential NSA (Non-Stand-Alone) bands. This is very important when ordering modems, otherwise they are useless on US 5G bands or very limited, and will only work in 4G-LTE mode.

The most popular modems in the US are the Quectel EM12-G (4G), EM16-G (EM160R 4G), RM500Q-AE (5G) and the Simcom SIM7912G-M2 (4G), SIM7920G-M2 (4G), SIM8200EA-M2 (5G).

You can find more info about the 5G ready WG1608 router and modems here:
https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1172
And mobile services here:
https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?p=5790#p5790


Here's a list of all US 4G-LTE and 5G bands.

US 4G-LTE bands ("*" = Primary bands)
ATT = *2, 4, 5, 12, 14, 17, 29, 30, 46, 66
TMO = 2, *4, 5, 12, 46, 66, 71
VZW = 2, 4, 5, *13, 66
SPR = *25, 26, 41

US 5G-NR Bands/(frequencies)
sub-6Ghz is used primarily by ATT and Tmobile (bands are designated by the lower case letter "n")
n2 (1,900Mhz), n5 (850MHz), *n41 (2,500MHz), n66 (AWS-3), *n71 (600MHz)

mmWave is used primarily by Verizon (bands are designated by the upper case letter "N")
N260 (39GHz), N261 (28GHz)

But I received this back from the distributor on Alibaba:

Dear Jonathan,

We have stock for SIM8200EA-M2 , but i suggest SIM8202G-M2 more suitable to you in USA. SIM8200EA-M2 not support USA bands, but SIM8202G-M2 would be. we have samples stock.
Regards
heidi

I am wondering what a good modem will be, that will cover the frequencies for most, if not all US 5G? I am currently considering the SIM8300G-M2, which also has mmWave support.

Thanks in advance!

I am leaning towards the SIM8202G-M2 for the non-mmWave radio(s), it supports SA and NSA:

The SIM8202G-M2 is the Multi-Band 5G NR/LTE-FDD/LTE-TDD/HSPA+ module which supports R15 5G NSA/SA up to 2.4Gbps data transfer.

and it seems to cover the frequencies:

Frequency Bands
Sub-6G(SA)
n1,n2,n3,n5,n7,n8,n12,n20,n28,n38,n40,n41,n48,n66,n71,n77,n78,n79
Sub-6G(NSA)
n1,n3,n7,n8,n20,n28,n38,n41,n77,n78,n79
LTE-FDD
B1/B2/B3/B4/B5/B7/B8/B12/B13/B14/B17/B18/B19/B20/B25/B26/B28/B29/B30/B32/B66/B71
LTE-TDD
B34/B38/B39/B40/B41/B42/B43/B48
LAA
B46
WCDMA
B1/B2/B3/B4/B5/B8

The SIM8300G-M2 supports NSA and SA plus these frequencies:

Frequency Bands:
5G mmWave: n257,n258,n260,n261
5G Sub-6G: n1,n2,n3,n5,n7,n8,n12,n20,n25,n28,n40,n41,n66,n71,n77,n78,n79
LTE-FDD: B1/B2/B3/B4/B5/B7/B8/B12/B13/B14/B17/B18/B19/B20/B25/B26/B28/B29/B30/B66/B71
LTE-TDD: B34/B38/B39/B40/B41/B42/B46/B48
WCDMA: B1/B2/B3/B4/B5/B8

To meet these would both my criteria for the band's support, I believe.

The problem you will run into with the mmWave support is the severe lack of antennas available to the consumer market, and may not be any for some time.

I am noticing the lack of antennas, I had a separate post asking that exact question since I did not see any in the store. I think I might be overcomplicating the design with mmWave support. I feel like the SIM8202G-M2 will meet 5G national requirements for ATT/VZW/Tmobile. Going to order a sample and test it before I order the other 4. If anyone has advice on issues with the simcom modems... always welcome.

I'd be interested in an update on this. Did you deploy the SIM8202G-M2? Did you have any issues using different carrier SIMs? (I'm assuming this modem isn't officially certified on any carrier)

bobjones wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:53 am I am noticing the lack of antennas, I had a separate post asking that exact question since I did not see any in the store. I think I might be overcomplicating the design with mmWave support. I feel like the SIM8202G-M2 will meet 5G national requirements for ATT/VZW/Tmobile. Going to order a sample and test it before I order the other 4. If anyone has advice on issues with the simcom modems... always welcome.

At the time when I posted about the Simcom SIM8200EA-M2, the SIM8202G-M2 wasn't available yet, which is now a better option than the original. I'm still using a SIM8200EA-M2 along with a Samsung S9 tethered to the router via USB and MWAN failover, which works great on Tmobile/SimpleMobile. Here's my 5G speed test:
https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?p=15158#p15158

The Simcom SIM82xxG-M2 series only supports 4G-LTE, while the SIM83xxG-M2 series also works on mmWave,
Due to mmWave's very high frequencies (40-60 GHz) and a large number of antennas required (8 mmWave plus 4 more 4G-LTE antennas), using it in a router is difficult and impractical. Even a couple of inches of coax cables connecting the antennas can attenuate and interfere with the signal leading to poor performance. Integrating mWave modems into phones is easier since the antennas are connected directly to the main board and the modem chip.

I have tested several 5G phones and services on ATT, Tmobile, and Verizon, but wasn't impressed with the speeds. Unless you live in a large city and close by a tower, 5G speeds are not much faster than regular 4G-LTE at this time, though carriers are constantly improving it. mmWave with its very high frequencies is the worst when it comes to coverage and sensitivity, moving it even a short distance or the shielding by the water in your hands can affect the signal and speeds greatly.

Due to the difficulty of connecting antennas close to a mmWave modem, an easier, cheaper, and more practical solution is to simply tether a Verizon 5G-mmWave phone to a router via USB. Here's how to do it:
https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?p=10303#p10303

Keep in mind, that not all unlocked Verizon 5G-mmWave phones will support 5G on AT&T and Tmobile (it should work on 4G-LTE but some bands may be missing), so always check the specs (n<xxx> bands are 5G-GSM, and N<xxx> are 5G-mmWave). Some of the most expensive high end Verizon phones may support both 5G-GSM and 5G-mmWave. Also, most unlocked AT&T and Tmobile 5G phones will probably not support Verizon's mmWave (always check the specs).

With two or more internet sources for extra speed and reliability (internal + external modem or phone), you can use OpenWRT's built-in MWAN load-balancing/failover feature.
https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/net ... iwan/mwan3
Or use OpenMPTCPRouter with true channel bonding for higher speed, static IP, VPN, etc.
https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1078

BillA wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:13 am At the time when I posted about the Simcom SIM8200EA-M2, the SIM8202G-M2 wasn't available yet, which is now a better option than the original. I'm still using a SIM8200EA-M2 along with a Samsung S9 tethered to the router via USB and MWAN failover, which works great on Tmobile/SimpleMobile. Here's my 5G speed test:
https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?p=15158#p15158

The Simcom SIM82xxG-M2 series only supports 4G-LTE, while the SIM83xxG-M2 series also works on mmWave,
Due to mmWave's very high frequencies (40-60 GHz) and a large number of antennas required (8 mmWave plus 4 more 4G-LTE antennas), using it in a router is difficult and impractical. Even a couple of inches of coax cables connecting the antennas can attenuate and interfere with the signal leading to poor performance. Integrating mWave modems into phones is easier since the antennas are connected directly to the main board and the modem chip.

I have tested several 5G phones and services on ATT, Tmobile, and Verizon, but wasn't impressed with the speeds. Unless you live in a large city and close by a tower, 5G speeds are not much faster than regular 4G-LTE at this time, though carriers are constantly improving it. mmWave with its very high frequencies is the worst when it comes to coverage and sensitivity, moving it even a short distance or the shielding by the water in your hands can affect the signal and speeds greatly.

Due to the difficulty of connecting antennas close to a mmWave modem, an easier, cheaper, and more practical solution is to simply tether a Verizon 5G-mmWave phone to a router via USB. Here's how to do it:
https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?p=10303#p10303

Keep in mind, that not all unlocked Verizon 5G-mmWave phones will support 5G on AT&T and Tmobile (it should work on 4G-LTE but some bands may be missing), so always check the specs (n<xxx> bands are 5G-GSM, and N<xxx> are 5G-mmWave). Some of the most expensive high end Verizon phones may support both 5G-GSM and 5G-mmWave. Also, most unlocked AT&T and Tmobile 5G phones will probably not support Verizon's mmWave (always check the specs).

With two or more internet sources for extra speed and reliability (internal + external modem or phone), you can use OpenWRT's built-in MWAN load-balancing/failover feature.
https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/net ... iwan/mwan3
Or use OpenMPTCPRouter with true channel bonding for higher speed, static IP, VPN, etc.
https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1078

I've been looking at these 5G modems on The Wireless Haven but I see no mention of Carrier Aggregation or the bands they support in CA either, do none of them have this? I'm confused.

Sintrail wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:21 pm I've been looking at these 5G modems on The Wireless Haven but I see no mention of Carrier Aggregation or the bands they support in CA either, do none of them have this? I'm confused.

Here you go:

The specs focus on modem category mostly. The realm of 5G is new and is honestly changing all the time. I swear these modems capabilities change from what I read on these CA sheets.

Didneywhorl wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:47 pmHere you go:

Thanks, where did you get this? I've looked all over for the Data!

Sintrail wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:56 pm Thanks, where did you get this? I've looked all over for the Data!

Direct from Quectel sales. They don't give it out freely.

Didneywhorl wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:09 pm Direct from Quectel sales. They don't give it out freely.

This is bizarre is it not? How do they not know exactly what CA combinations there are?

Sintrail wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:22 pm This is bizarre is it not? How do they not know exactly what CA combinations there are?

I think they are adjusting them. But, I agree. There should be published documents.